Metonyms

chained_bear commented on the list metonyms-2

Neat list! Suggest Madison Avenue (U.S. advertising industry). The Fed (U.S. Federal Reserve). Wait, that's not a place name. Vatican City? (Catholic Church leadership).

Can't think of any more right now but I bet I will as soon as I step away from the desk...

January 10, 2008

reesetee commented on the list metonyms-2

Nice list, kewpid. How about Detroit (for the auto industry) and "the palace" for Buckingham Palace?

January 10, 2008

misterpolly commented on the list metonyms-2

Metonym does not require the use of place names. It means using a word which denotes an object associated with another concept. "The crown" = the King/Queen/Monarchy is an example. "A pen" could be a writer and "a sail" be used for a ship.

January 10, 2008

chained_bear commented on the list metonyms-2

Well, OK, thanks. I figured given most of the words on the list that's what kewpid was looking for. "The Fed" is really just an abbreviation anyway.

I've heard Seattle or Redmond used to mean Microsoft, but it's rare enough I'd debate adding it. If it were my list. Which is isn't. Also heaven is used to mean God sometimes, as in "heaven help us," for example.

Ah, the place names are more fun anyhow.

January 10, 2008

kewpid commented on the list metonyms-2

Thanks everyone! I wasn't limiting it to place names, although it kind of looked that way.

January 10, 2008

reesetee commented on the list metonyms-2

Oh, see, I thought you were limiting it to place names, kewpid. But I probably just need more coffee. :-)

January 10, 2008

sionnach commented on the list metonyms-2

The suits for managers at a company. One wonders what an appropriate metonym might be for, e.g. Paris Hilton, Flava Flav or Kevin Federline?

January 10, 2008

reesetee commented on the list metonyms-2

This one doesn't wonder. ;->

January 10, 2008

chained_bear commented on the list metonyms-2

Yeah, beehive tipped me off, though.

What a strange word that is.

In the spirit of sionnach's suggestion... bean counters for accountants? Maybe not.

January 10, 2008

bilby commented on the list metonyms-2

*thinking*

May 26, 2008

bilby commented on the list metonyms-2

If you have the Lodge you probably need Yarralumla. Officially it's a suburb of Canberra but in the public mind it only means one thing.

In Italian politics, Quirinale. In fact the official site of the President of the Italian Republic is www.quirinale.it

May 26, 2008

kewpid commented on the list metonyms-2

Added! thanks bilby.

May 26, 2008

bilby commented on the list metonyms-2

I should have added that Quirinale is in fact the highest of the seven hills of Rome, and it just so happens that the Presidential palace sits up there.

One that came to mind while I was out - Wordie invades my evening, again - was the red planet as a metonym for Mars.

May 26, 2008

rolig commented on the list metonyms-2

Actually, bilby, "red planet" is a periphrasis for Mars, not a metonym, since "red planet" in fact describes Mars, it's not just something associated with it. Similarly, "the palace" is a metonym when you use it to refer to the Queen, her staff, or the monarchy in general ("the palace announced today..."), but not when you use it to refer to Buckingham Palace itself (as reesetee suggests), just as the White House is metonymic if you mean the executive branch of the US government, but not if you mean the building at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue.

May 26, 2008

bilby commented on the list metonyms-2

Indeed 'red planet' describes Mars but it functions as a metonym in that for the expression to work it assumes most people realistically only know of one planet that is red, ie. the denotative role of the language is squirreled down to just a single planet.

A red planet passed behind the sun.

is different to:

The Red Planet passed across the sun.

in the same way as

The palace was quiet today.

is different to:

The palace announced today.

May 26, 2008

rolig commented on the list metonyms-2

bilby, I don't disagree that the phrase "the red planet" refers to Mars, i.e. "exploration of the red planet" would be understood by most people as meaning the exploration of Mars, but that still does not make the phrase a metonym. It is, if I have my rhetorical terms right, a periphrasis, a way of naming something by circumlocution, like saying "the guy in the Oval Office" instead of "the president of the United States of America". A metonym stands for something by referring to a thing that is associated with it (synecdoche, a class of metonym, refers to a part of the thing, like "sail" for ship or "keys" for piano). I'm trying to think of a good metonym for Mars, but the only thing I can come up with is "red dust" (e.g. "people wondered whether it was wise to spend billions of dollars on red dust" -- though here "red dust" is a metonym not for Mars, but for the exploration of Mars).

May 26, 2008

mollusque commented on the list metonyms-2

OED2 says of metonymy "...the action of substituting for a word or phrase denoting an object, action, institution, etc., a word or phrase denoting a property or something associated with it...."

Are metonyms a subset of allonyms? And how do they differ from nicknames?

May 26, 2008

bilby commented on the list metonyms-2

These things are never very clear cut, rol :-)

May 27, 2008

gangerh commented on the list metonyms-2

Well-metonym by satellite?

May 27, 2008

bilby commented on the list metonyms-2

*slaps gangerh with a Neddy Seagoon*

May 27, 2008

seanahan commented on the list metonyms-2

You can't really go by the definitions in dictionaries of such things. If you really take them seriously, than all of sarcasm and metaphor is a subset of irony, which I think we can clearly agree is false.

May 27, 2008

kewpid commented on the list metonyms-2

I'm glad my list has generated such lively debate. I personally favour the broader meaning of metonyms as it means more words to list :)

May 27, 2008

rolig commented on the list metonyms-2

Personally, I like dictionaries, seanahan, as well as other reference books, when you are trying to understand the way a technical word is used in a certain field (in the case of metonym, that would be the field of language and writing, so I would rely on, for example, The Princeton Encyclopedia of Poetry and Poetics). Dictionaries and other reference works are important tools in the general contract of language: that we will use words consistently (given the context) in ways that we can all understand. Word usage (hence the specifics of this contract) is constantly changing, and dictionaries are not always able to keep abreast, but such changes happen much more slowly in the field of technical language. Of course, kewpid, as the creator and arbiter of this list, is free to define the terms as he (she?) wishes (confining it, for example, to metonymic toponyms). But to extend the meaning of metonymy to include any figure of speech seems a shame to me, since there exists a well-established distinction between metonym and metaphor (comparable to that between syntax and paradigm), which seems to be basic to human thought (see Roman Jakobson's seminal essay, "The Cardinal Dichotomy in Language").

I am sorry if this sounds pedantic; I only mean it to be useful. And I certainly never intended to belittle anyone's suggestions (and especially not those of bilby, who I think is brilliant and invariably kind and courteous).

May 27, 2008

seanahan commented on the list metonyms-2

Rolig, I think you misunderstood me. I was agreeing with you, and not the dictionary definition cited by Mollusque.

May 28, 2008

mollusque commented on the list metonyms-2

I wasn't suggesting that the OED definition proved one point or another; I was trying to move toward finer distinctions among related terms, which is why I asked about allonyms and nicknames.

I agree with rolig that "Red Planet" is not a metonym for Mars, because it refers to the same thing, not something else. It is a periphrasis, an allonym, a nickname, and a synonym. In Misterpolly's examples, "pen" is a metonym for "writer", but "sail" is not a metonym for "ship", but an example of synedoche.

By the way, I didn't cite the entire OED definition. It also says "In extended use: a thing used or regarded as a substitute for or symbol of something else....Because the association involved in metonymy is typically by contiguity rather than similarity, metonymy is often contrasted with metaphor."

May 28, 2008