You-Know-What

shevek commented on the list you-know-what

Is there logic to what goes on this list? I feel like I'm playing a lateral thinking game trying to find a pattern.

July 20, 2008

mialuthien commented on the list you-know-what

You'll never win, because I'm pants at categorizing things!

Only words that have no place on any of my other lists go there. Still, they have some basic characteristics:

1) only phrases (that means, two words+);

2) words that go together with each other;

3) MOSTLY BORING (but sometimes so useful to know).

You see, not being a native speaker, I sometimes string together words that may sound correct to my ears, but are utterly incongruous, or even laughable to a native speaker of English, who can just tell by hearing them spoken, well, it doesn't sound quite right. Like, when I say intelligent planning and mean intelligent design, or electronic observation and mean electronic surveillance instead. Or substitute internal monologue for much less used internal soliloquy. Language is serious business, as you well know :)

July 20, 2008

sionnach commented on the list you-know-what

Mia: Many of the definitions you provide for the words on this list strike me as being a little bit off - either overly reductive, or missing some nuance which is actually important.

I don't know if you want people to comment when this is the case, or if you find it obnoxious. It's an odd list - the phrases range from numbingly cliched ("at the end of the day") to potentially interesting ("behavioural economics", "digital intellectual property").

July 25, 2008

chained_bear commented on the list you-know-what

If I may... I don't think this list is mostly boring at all. It's spawned quite a few conversations, which is great! ... Er... as long as you don't find it obnoxious.

Also, I think many of these phrases are really easy to understand for native speakers (as you mentioned), but trying to pin down a definition is like... umm... herding cats. (Which I respectfully submit you might want to add to the list. :))

July 25, 2008

mialuthien commented on the list you-know-what

To dispel some concerns, I have too say that I have no objections whatsoever to being corrected or amended – in fact, all suggestions on proper usage or spelling of words and expressions are very welcome. I'm here to learn, and I've already learnt so much from all of you.

As to this list – it mostly serves as a repository for those words that I do not wish to see on my 2008 Wordlist, which is for words I want to memorize when there's enough time, or on my "invisible list", which is for fun Wordie creations or words I'm feeling partial to for one reason or another. This is not a themed list. Though I'm open to any suggestions on how to name it properly.

Sionnach: I love all kinds of comments and the subsequent discussions they provoke, and it would take very strong and colorful language to really offend me, so don't ever be afraid to comment on my too broad, too narrow, or too feeble definitions! :)

And herding cats is going straight to my "invisible" (read: favourite) list, Chained_Bear!

July 25, 2008

chained_bear commented on the list you-know-what

Mia, it looks like a lot of these terms are idioms. Just a thought. (Surely someone will argue with me about the meaning of idiom now... right? Anyone? Bueller?)

July 25, 2008

dontcry commented on the list you-know-what

c_b, Bueller is sick today. But, if I may: English IS my first language -- and the first language of most of my friends. Still, I hear them use "idioms" like "idiots" and nearly bite the tip of my tongue right off NOT correcting them for the 100th time on phrases they say incorrectly, here are two of my 'favorites':

"I could care less" (It's "I COULDN'T care less" and if you just thought about it for a second, you might be able to remember that!)

"You can't have your cake and eat it, too" (It's "You can't EAT your cake and have it, too" and if you just thought about it for a second, you'd realize that. Of course you CAN HAVE your cake and then EAT it. But you cannot EAT your cake and then still HAVE it.

Honestly, what I put up with...

July 25, 2008

mialuthien commented on the list you-know-what

*raises hand timidly* Aren't they clichéd expressions instead of idioms? At least, I thought they were (the last ones posted, I mean).

Dontcry, I'm in agreement with you. But I've also got an impression (from reading stuff online, mostly) that the phrase "I couldn't care less" is mostly British, while its companion "I could care less" is more used in America. The latter does sound a bit nonsensical, if you ask me, but if so many people are still using it, there should be some justification for it. As to the other expression, "you can’t have your cake and eat it, too" sounds more natural to me :)

July 25, 2008

chained_bear commented on the list you-know-what

I have a list of stuff that makes my skin crawl, and some of these examples are on there. (Signed, Too Lazy to Go Find It.) I would say clichés only become clichés because they are idioms in the first place.

But to be fair, I haven't sat down and read this list really carefully yet either. Nor have I looked up idiom in the dictionary lately. Signed, Too Lazy to Do Much of Anything But Spout Off Opinions Nobody Asked For.

July 25, 2008

mialuthien commented on the list you-know-what

C_B, you sound too much like me for my piece of mind *g* Especially in your signature line.

July 25, 2008

chained_bear commented on the list you-know-what

:)

July 25, 2008

sionnach commented on the list you-know-what

"You can't have your cake and eat it, too" (It's "You can't EAT your cake and have it, too" and if you just thought about it for a second, you'd realize that. Of course you CAN HAVE your cake and then EAT it. But you cannot EAT your cake and then still HAVE it.

Say what now?

world wide words weighs in

I have never said anything but "can't have your cake and eat it", and have never found this even remotely contradictory, because the simultaneity of the two verbs is implicit. (There's no "then" in the sentence to cue an ordering; as Quinion points out, inserting "both" might make it a little clearer).

On google hits, "have your cake and eat it" outnumbers "eat your cake and have it" by 605,000 to 26,300.

I am in complete agreement that "I could care less" is a slovenly barbarism, indicative of flabby intellects.

July 25, 2008

bilby commented on the list you-know-what

I'm a cake haver. At parties and things people give me cake, even when I tell them I don't eat cake. So the cake just sits there, and I pretend to be happy about having it. Then they make me take it home so I still have it. I can have cake and not eat it, oh yes. But I can't have cake and eat it too. It's the having that seems to be important to folks.

P.S. Cake's for throwing, too.

July 25, 2008

yarb commented on the list you-know-what

Completely agree, sionnach. The contradiction is between possessing a (whole) cake, and at the same time enjoying eating it.

July 25, 2008

mialuthien commented on the list you-know-what

Well, I don't know about Dontcry, but I loved your explanations, especially the examples provided (your illustration rocks, Bilby!). And slovenly and flabby is going on my list.

July 25, 2008

plethora commented on the list you-know-what

And now for a pointless comment:

I was given cake today. It was very tasty.

July 25, 2008

dontcry commented on the list you-know-what

I love cake. I like eating it better than having it. Bilby, Can I have, I mean eat, yours?

July 26, 2008

bilby commented on the list you-know-what

*declares from royal balcony*

Let dontcry eat cake!

July 26, 2008

mialuthien commented on the list you-know-what

Gather around! Gather around! Let's all eat cake at Bilby's expense! Thus, we can have a cake and eat it, too. We just have to make a point of eating only Bilby's cakes, keeping ours to ourselves.

*nom nom nom*

July 26, 2008

dontcry commented on the list you-know-what

*gives the royal wave with one hand while stuffing cake into her piehole with the other*

July 26, 2008

pterodactyl commented on the list you-know-what

Silly dontcry. Pieholes are for pie!

July 26, 2008

dontcry commented on the list you-know-what

D'oh!

July 27, 2008

reesetee commented on the list you-know-what

Cake??

*indiscriminately flings cupcakes hither and yon*

July 29, 2008

dontcry commented on the list you-know-what

rt - wasting cake!! That's not hunky-dory -- is it? ;0

July 29, 2008

reesetee commented on the list you-know-what

But it's my trademark! Chained_bear says so!

July 29, 2008