criss-cross applesauce

frindley commented on the word criss-cross applesauce

Reaction 1: huh?

Reaction 2: google

Reaction 3: so what's wrong with just calling it "sitting cross-legged" then?

Google took me to a fairly comprehensive and much commented upon post from 2006. Seems that "criss-cross applesauce" has been adopted by the "PC police" in early childhood educational circles as an alternative to "sitting Indian style", despite there being nothing specifically offensive about such usage (cf. taking tea while kneeling "Japanese style" - innocuous, it just refers to an old cultural practice). In Britain as in Australia it seems this was and is called "cross-legged"; some comments from Europe said they called it "Turkish style" (in Germany), and "tailors' style".

September 28, 2008

yarb commented on the word criss-cross applesauce

Depends on the American rhyming of cross with sauce.

September 28, 2008

bilby commented on the word criss-cross applesauce

Someone please tell me cross does not rhyme with sauce.

September 28, 2008

frindley commented on the word criss-cross applesauce

Cross does not rhyme with sauce. (Always happy to oblige!)

On the other hand, if one thinks of the dialect/accent group in which sauce sounds more like the beginning of sausage and less like "source" then it's possible to make the leap of imagination and hear a rhyme between cross and sauce. But you have to be sitting cross-legged for the leap to work!

September 28, 2008

dontcry commented on the word criss-cross applesauce

Why would "sauce" sound more like "source" than "cross??" Where's the "r" in "sauce?"

September 29, 2008

pterodactyl commented on the word criss-cross applesauce

I am trying to imagine a way in which cross and sauce could NOT rhyme, but I'm failing. I mean, whether you pronounce them "KROSS" and "SOSS" (as I do), or "KRORSE" and "SORSE", they still rhyme, right?

September 29, 2008

yarb commented on the word criss-cross applesauce

This is funny. I pronounce them "kross" and "sorse".

September 29, 2008

chained_bear commented on the word criss-cross applesauce

I'm with ptero and dontcry. I can't imagine them not rhyming.

September 29, 2008

bilby commented on the word criss-cross applesauce

*rolling on floor weeping*

September 29, 2008

jennarenn commented on the word criss-cross applesauce

As an early childhood educator, I use this term almost daily. My apologies to the rest of the world for the offense.

September 29, 2008

plethora commented on the word criss-cross applesauce

I'm with you, yarb.

September 29, 2008

Prolagus commented on the word criss-cross applesauce

I (mis)pronounce them kross and saws...

September 29, 2008

frindley commented on the word criss-cross applesauce

@bilby: don't cry!

@dontcry: There's no "r" in sauce, but there's also no "r"-sound when an Aussie or Brit says "source". For us "sauce" and "source" sound identical, that is: /s�?�?s/

Cross, on the other hand, sounds like: /krɒs/

(cf. vowel with the first syllable of sausage: /'sɒsɪdʒ/, which I imagine is closer to an American's pronunciation of sauce: /sɒ�?s/ ?? )

For me to get the rhyme right I would have to write: criss-cross applesoss.

For an American to get the rhyme "wrong" the way I do, you'd have to think of it as more like:

criss-cross apple-saws

September 29, 2008

bilby commented on the word criss-cross applesauce

I was going to dry my eyes but I gave my hanky to frogapplause yesterday.

The sound is one thing, about which Differences Remain. But the vowel-length in sauce is clearly longer than the very short one in cross, which makes the rhyme awkward for (I would have thought) most people. Unless you are Bob Dylan singin' through your fluuuuuuuuuuute.

September 29, 2008

dontcry commented on the word criss-cross applesauce

I know a little boy named Eric (air-ick). He has a friend who calls him Eric (air-wick).

September 29, 2008

chained_bear commented on the word criss-cross applesauce

For me the vowel isn't any longer. Sauce rhymes with the first syllable of sausage, as frindley so helpfully pointed out. And so does cross. *shrugs* That's just the way it is.

As for the phrase, no apology necessary, jennarenn! To many Americans, cross-legged means sitting on a chair with one's legs crossed. Indian style is not necessarily recognizable in meaning anymore, as well as being probably offensive to some Native American groups (who really do take offense at some terms like this). So this is a cute phrase (that I usually have no reason to use, myself) for young kids. And thanks for teaching the next generation of citizens, J. :)

September 29, 2008

frindley commented on the word criss-cross applesauce

Ah, the niceties of language! Down here in the Antipodes, if you were sitting on a chair with your legs crossed you'd say you were "crossing your legs" or that you had your "legs crossed" and an old-fashioned etiquette maven might tell you "don't cross your legs, cross your ankles".

"Sitting cross-legged" is a defined idiom that means sitting on the floor in something approximating a half-lotus.

I guess the difference is between crossed legs/legs crossed and cross-legged, with one describing the position of the legs and the other a style of sitting.

Then there's another, related idiom: crossed-leg cafe.

September 29, 2008

frogapplause commented on the word criss-cross applesauce

bilby: I've had more than a few comic strip fans mistakenly refer to my cartoon as "Frog Applesauce". Would you like your hanky back?

September 30, 2008

bilby commented on the word criss-cross applesauce

I'll invest in some more as hankies are wonderfully useful things.

What can you make with frogapplesauce?

September 30, 2008

rolig commented on the word criss-cross applesauce

Are frog apples the amphibian version of crab apples?

For me, "cross", "sauce", "loss", "boss" all rhyme with each other, but I think there are American dialects (Michigan, Minnesota, Fargo, for example) where the vowel sound in "cross", "loss", and "boss" is more like "ah", while the vowel sound in "sauce" is more like "aw" (as in saw).

September 30, 2008

reesetee commented on the word criss-cross applesauce

Ditto, rolig. They all rhyme for me too.

September 30, 2008

rolig commented on the word criss-cross applesauce

I don't think Sarah Palin, for example, would ever rhyme "cross" with "applesauce", though that might be partly for religious reasons.

September 30, 2008

dontcry commented on the word criss-cross applesauce

*snort*

September 30, 2008

chained_bear commented on the word criss-cross applesauce

The issue of whether a vowel is longer in certain words that sound like other words reminded me of a debate I had with a Brit many years ago. He, like so many Brits, disliked the American pronunciation of a T in the middle of a word as if it were a D, as in the well-known case "butter." (It cracks me up to hear Brits try to pronounce anything the way Americans do, and I can still hear him struggling without success to say butter and dork. HA HA!!)

But I digress. How, he asked reasonably, can Americans tell when someone is saying the word "rider" vs. the word "writer"? My first response was, of course, the context. But after some thought, I realized that the long-I sound is longer in rider (at least the way my family and I pronounce it) than in writer. It's just a theory, and certainly there are enough variations in pronunciation that there can be cases where it's hard to tell the difference in spoken language. But if you just say to yourself, "Riders of the Purple Sage" and then say "Writers have cats and lumpy bodies," you might hear the difference.

September 30, 2008

reesetee commented on the word criss-cross applesauce

Sure, sure. Until you start talking about Writers of the Purple Sage.

;->

September 30, 2008

bilby commented on the word criss-cross applesauce

What's that about Raiders of the Pupil's Age?

September 30, 2008

chained_bear commented on the word criss-cross applesauce

See, that's exactly my point. o_0

Don't forget riders with cats.

September 30, 2008

catkisses commented on the word criss-cross applesauce

I think applesauce everywhere should be offended at this besmirchment of it's good name.

October 2, 2008

chained_bear commented on the word criss-cross applesauce

What's so offensive about this term? It makes me think of apple butter cake, the way my grandmother used to make it, with cross-hatching of dough across the top.

So there.

October 2, 2008

frindley commented on the word criss-cross applesauce

I don't think there's anything offensive about it all. But for someone who was brought up with "sitting cross-legged" and encounters the term for the first time it does seem unbearably cutesy and a bit juvenile. And you could certainly say cute and juvenile is fine for kids, who are the people who sit this way the most. But I like to take a long view with language and children. After all, I am comfortable using "cross-legged" as a grown up, but what would I say today if as a child the only term I'd ever been given was "criss-cross applesauce"? – I'd feel like a right dork saying that! Of course, all the teaching I've done has been with children aged 10 to 17, and I have no kiddies of my own, only niblings, so that's an influence, I'm sure.

October 2, 2008

chained_bear commented on the word criss-cross applesauce

"I'd feel like a right dork...!"

I love this. I'm going to talk like frindley today. I'm declaring it office-wide Talk Like Princess Frindley Day.

October 2, 2008

Prolagus commented on the word criss-cross applesauce

Frindley has always style, even when she uses explicit language.

Will you marry me?

October 2, 2008

reesetee commented on the word criss-cross applesauce

Uh oh. Looks like we need to upgrade to Wordie PRO with the WordieMatch© function....

October 2, 2008

chained_bear commented on the word criss-cross applesauce

And another thing I didn't think to mention earlier: isn't applesauce itself a bit juvenile? I mean, it's a food for convalescents and kids, mostly. So how could it be offended by having the delightful criss-cross in front of it? Makes a fine pair.

*still craving apple butter cake*

October 2, 2008

reesetee commented on the word criss-cross applesauce

*also craving apple butter cake*

October 2, 2008

yarb commented on the word criss-cross applesauce

In Britain it's a (justifiably) classic accompaniment to roast pork. Try it some time.

October 2, 2008

chained_bear commented on the word criss-cross applesauce

It is here too, yarb--pork chops, pork roast, whatever--but that doesn't change the fact that it's also convalescent (and comfort) food.

Edit: That reminds me of my confusion and wonder when making homemade baby food many eons ago, and it dawned on me that although "sauce" could be made with any kind of fruit—pears, cherries, peaches, etc.—most people eat only sauce made from apples. Everything else I was making for the kid was considered exclusively baby food.

October 3, 2008

bilby commented on the word criss-cross applesauce

Most Australians eat tomato sauce and that's made from a fruit.

October 3, 2008

chained_bear commented on the word criss-cross applesauce

You are referring to what we call ketchup, bilby? Do you eat it from a bowl with a spoon, as most people do with applesauce?

October 3, 2008

plethora commented on the word criss-cross applesauce

I have been known to...

*shifty eyes*

October 3, 2008

bilby commented on the word criss-cross applesauce

I use applesauce for making cakes actually.

October 3, 2008

chained_bear commented on the word criss-cross applesauce

Do you use ketchup to make cakes too?

Also, does anyone want to weigh in on the age-old debate whether tomatoes are a fruit or a vegetable? (I don't. Just askin'.)

October 3, 2008

Prolagus commented on the word criss-cross applesauce

Homemade baby food, C_b? Are you Diane Keaton?

October 3, 2008

chained_bear commented on the word criss-cross applesauce

No, I just read an article a long time ago about how commercial baby food is made, and... uhh... I made my own for a while.

October 3, 2008

reesetee commented on the word criss-cross applesauce

That's dedication. :-)

October 3, 2008

yarb commented on the word criss-cross applesauce

Most commercial baby food doesn't taste that good, anyway. Sometimes I think they add artificial lumps in an attempt to simulate authenticity. It's usually tastier to make your own, and it's always easy - after all it's just stewing, mashing and blending.

October 3, 2008

arcadia commented on the word criss-cross applesauce

Tomatoes are fruit, but "freak" fruit, the way Alaska is a "freak" state.

I have 3 children who have never eaten store bought baby food, mostly because that is totally disgusting stuff, but also because making baby food is wonderful, and helped me cope with the process of having my babies nurse less and less as they started on solids.

When one is cutting up the raw food for one's self, and cutting OUT any dark or questionable parts, it has to click that the machine that makes Gerber's baby food isn't so concerned with blemishes, so you never know WHAT you are feeding them really. And, of course, all the preservatives and sugars they add can't be good.

We have a manual baby food grinder, so I just boiled the fruits and veggies, ran them through the grinder, and scooped that into ice cube trays, which make perfect infant portions. Defrost with warm water, not the micro-wave, of course.

October 4, 2008

yarb commented on the word criss-cross applesauce

Actually, studies have shown that microwaving food infuses it with good vibes, which in turn makes for groovy kids.

n.b. Arcadia, would you mind deleting two of those repeats? See faq for how.

October 4, 2008

Prolagus commented on the word criss-cross applesauce

Exciting! But wait... Alaska? Why do you hate freedom? :-)

October 4, 2008

dontcry commented on the word criss-cross applesauce

Actually, it was a law on the books many years ago that restaurants had to serve some kind of apple dish with a pork dish. Something about the pork fat and the acid in the apples, I think...

Definitely homemade baby food. They're worth it.

October 4, 2008

arcadia commented on the word criss-cross applesauce

--yarb-- I followed your instructions for removing the extra postings, but it didn't give me the delete option you promised. I'll try again but please don't banish me for this blunder just yet.

--Prolagus-- The subtle political indication with my mention of Alaska was intentional, thanks for catching it! How I laughed at your reply. :)

October 4, 2008

yarb commented on the word criss-cross applesauce

Edit, save, then go to edit again, and next to "edit" you'll see "delete" - where there was nothing before.

Edit: dontcry, I'm in favour of reinstating such a law. Also I'm pleased to hear there's a scientific reason for it.

October 4, 2008

dontcry commented on the word criss-cross applesauce

I think it's safe to say that many restaurants still practice the pork/apple policy -- especially the "diner" or "Mom & Pop" types.

October 4, 2008

dontcry commented on the word criss-cross applesauce

I always serve a baked pineapple dish with pork roast or ham. They just seem to belong together. My mom does a Waldorf (apple) salad. Funny how we don't do that with beef or poultry.

October 4, 2008

chained_bear commented on the word criss-cross applesauce

... or ketchup... ;)

October 4, 2008

arcadia commented on the word criss-cross applesauce

yarb-- thanks, it worked.

October 4, 2008

reesetee commented on the word criss-cross applesauce

*still craving apple butter cake*

October 4, 2008

frindley commented on the word criss-cross applesauce

Actually, there's a similar principle behind serving duck with orange. I have read that it is necessary because the duck eats its own faeces, which is a horrible thought that not even copious amounts of orange will dispel.

October 4, 2008

tshap commented on the word criss-cross applesauce

1. The first time I ever heard this term (as I am from the pre-PC days) was when my son and my niece were three,and in the same preschool class. I showed up a little early for pick-up, and the teacher invited me in for storytime. So here I sit, feeling like a giant, in this circle of three year olds, with my feet under my bottom, which was apparently against the rules. I hear a little voice saying "Mrs. Taylor...she's not sitting criss-cross applesauce..." It was my own niece. Betrayed! My first thought was what the frig does this mean? My second thought was what a fun way for the little ones to say it. I think it's cute!

2. It's a perfect rhyme the way I say it, too.

3. What the heck is Apple Butter cake, and how can I get a recipe for it?? It sounds delicious - and now I'm craving it! Maybe we need a site like this for recipes, too....

October 4, 2008

catkisses commented on the word criss-cross applesauce

I think I should clear up that my remark about applesauce being offended was a joke. I think 'Indian Style' is fine, but people get SO dang offended at the littlest things in our American Culture. If we all lighten up it might be a better world.

October 6, 2008

Prolagus commented on the word criss-cross applesauce

tshap, there are some recipes on Wordie! Try our pancakes or my tiramisù.

October 6, 2008

ruzuzu commented on the word criss-cross applesauce

*favorited* (if only because of the fact that sometimes I like to put catsup on my pancakes.)

August 27, 2010

dontcry commented on the word criss-cross applesauce

*horke*

August 27, 2010

ruzuzu commented on the word criss-cross applesauce

Sorry--would it be better to call it ketchup?

August 27, 2010

fbharjo commented on the word criss-cross applesauce

"Ketchup" was the name of a red car I once had (in pre- PC 1965). It flattened its competition and terrorized and fired the tiramisu (of course this was (a and the - definite indefinite and indefinite definite) precourse of my knowledge of tiramisu.) Only now I am getting caught-up. - (Ketchup in the pluperfect past tense.)It is a case of naranjious apples!(some pretenses here.)Its manzanos and naranjos. Are they hanging fruit? How pulpaceous!

see comments under orange

August 27, 2010

Prolagus commented on the word criss-cross applesauce

Dontcry, was that Ultra English?!

August 27, 2010

dontcry commented on the word criss-cross applesauce

Pro - I'm fluente.

August 27, 2010

ruzuzu commented on the word criss-cross applesauce

Oh. So it should be keetchuupe. Got it!

August 31, 2010

fbharjo commented on the word criss-cross applesauce

That's nothing to 'sneeze at.'

August 31, 2010

dontcry commented on the word criss-cross applesauce

*achooe*

August 31, 2010

fbharjo commented on the word criss-cross applesauce

Now that's something to chew on!

August 31, 2010

ruzuzu commented on the word criss-cross applesauce

Euuuw.

August 31, 2010